Chas Ray Krider photographs are part of a tradition of erotic art that employs exaggeration, mystery and the guilty pleasures of voyeurism. His photographs are about the forms employed in narrative based erotic art. Chas Ray’s work is widely exhibited and published, including three solo book, Motel Fetish by TASCHEN in 2002, 2nd edition 2012, Do Not Disturb by La Musardine of Paris, 2007, and Dirty Rendezvous by Goliath, 2014.
Hi Ray, where are you right now? And what do you see from there? Could you describe for us the background of this interview?
At the moment, I’m sitting at the dinning room table with my laptop. On the wall directly in front hangs a collection of dog paintings. My wife collects dog theme paintings by untrained, self-taught and outsider artists. She has close to a hundred paintings in her collection. There are twelve painting on this wall hung salon style, plus two painting we commissioned, one of our late dog Lulu and one of our current dog Elvis (Elvis has neurological twitch in his rear legs, hence the name, he’s shakin’ it up).
Do you know how many copies of your most successful book, Motel Fetish, have been sold?
Oddly I never asked. It didn’t matter much to me. I don’t receive royalties on the book. The Taschen paid a lump sum upfront. Then I was out of the financial picture. First leased in 2002 the book went out of print after about four years. It was reissued in 2012. Again I have no idea of the number printed for the second edition.
I like to think of Do Not Disturb as a small European art film. The book went out of print about 2010. There will be no additional printing. The book is rare in the US.
You have been published by Musardine, Goliath and Taschen. How’s working with these publishers?
For Motel Fetish Taschen made an offer I couldn’t refuse, mainly a quality book with world wide distribution. Eric Kroll, who is friends with Benedikt Taschen, suggested he consider my work for publication. Eric made the book happen and was the editor on the project. He and I did the first edit. For some reason I was asked by Taschen to design cover and later was asked to layout the whole book. I designed the cover. My wife is a graphic designer so together we did the book. It worked out well for me as I had control of the final edit and image sequencing. This really was quite a luxury. Publishers want to make books that will sell, not necessarily the art concept book the photographer has in mind. I was able to have it both ways. Luck. My second book, Do Not Disturb, was published in 2007 by La Musardine in Paris. La Musardine is a mainly a publisher of literature and erotic novels. I have been supplying La Musardine with photos for the covers of their erotic paper back novels since 2000. In 2005 I asked my contact if she thought anyone in Europe might consider doing a book of my work. To my surprise La Musardine said they would. I was glad for an opportunity to do a book away from the eyes of America. The French like their sexual imagery the way they like their jazz, Le Jazz Hot. I had many “hot” images, meaning explicit.
If I may regress, in 2000 book publishing in the US was more conservative. Explicit imagery and bondage were not likely to be published in art books. Mainly because the major book sellers, the big retail chains, would not carry books with certain content. Motel Fetish is fairly tame for that reason. With the French the content was more open. I had many more sexually dangerous images ready to go. With Do Not Disturb I had less control of the book’s layout and sequencing. All correspondance with the editor was by email, much was lost in translation. Email and language made arguing difficult. In the end the book turned good. The content was a combination of analog and digital work from 2002 to 2007. The book was an edition 3000, with no US distribution. I like to think of Do Not Disturb as a small European art film. The book went out of print about 2010. There will be no additional printing. The book is rare in the US.
My third book Dirty Rendezvous, published by Goliath Books of Berlin, was the easiest to produce since I had no particular agenda or concept I was pushing. I gave them a large number of images from which to select. The situation was this; they would make the first edit, then I would remove a few of their choices and then add back in what I felt necessary to express my overall vision. After some back and forth negotiations the content was mutually agreed upon. In the end I feel the photos were sequenced and paired up nicely. The book is well designed, the printing is excellent and has a cover photo choice. It’s a very solid book. I find the book’s title to be personally ironic. I love the notion of Rendezvous, but I have always tried to keep my work free of being considered Dirty. I guess in the end work is what it is. I didn’t fight title. The Goliath knows their market.
Your work is so “estraining”… it’s true contemporary classic, I guess this could be defined a sub-genre of some kind. Despite your pics are shot these days, they reflect eroticism, weirdness, paranoia, fears and excitement directly from the last century. I mean: every artist would like to be a classic. What are your feelings about this?
Thank you for your insightful observations on the range of the work, that there is more to the book than a collection of photos of women. The book’s photos and sequencing are meant to suggested a non-linear narrative. I have long said that in the Motel work I am not trying to recreate the past. I use the flavor and the warmth of the past to set the mood and tone of the overall body of work. The motel imagery is set up as a time warp, in that a photo may contain retro elements along the present day. For example there is a photo of Dita Von Teese which we made at a Quality Inn in Indianapolis about 1998. Dita’s personal styling is rather 1940ish. In the photo she’s wearing a 1960’s bra and girdle. The motel room is a very bad 1980s decor with mismatched floral pattern curtains and bead spread. To top the photo off I have her listening to music with 1990’s head phones. The photo is a complete mashup of periods, it’s a time warp. Much of my work is about the past and present co-existing within one image. As for weirdness and paranoia… I’m steeped in the surrealist tradition, with a film noir point of view. These are states of mind which inform my imagery. As for being a classic? The motel work is very Americana. While the photographs draw on the iconic imagery of the past, it is re-contextualized in contemporary way, at least I hope it is.
The internet devours images, the life span of a photo is short lived. What I like about the printed page and books is they allow for contemplation, something more than scrolling quickly onto the next photo.
I read an interview where you talked about the difference in shooting nudes, before and after the internet. I think you pointed out one of the best aspects of the web: it’s so easy now to find people similar to you. It’s easy to form subculture niches. So many people joining the bizarre army… Do you think that there is a bad side of this internet era, as well?
Before the internet it was the printed page that mattered. For the photographer and model to have a photo in print was validation of ones existences and/or beauty. Access to the printed page was limited. When digital internet page supplanted the printed page the gate was open for everyone to be published.
The Motel work begins in the mid 90’s, the internet as a platform for displaying work had not arrived. At that time there very few photographer and models making serious sexual images. I had to convince women, non models, that its was OK to make these type of photographs. By the mid 2000s everything had opened up. The internet opened eyes and minds as to what was possible, what was permitted… for good or bad. I refer to posting to the internet, social media, as feeing the machine. The internet devours images, the life span of a photo is short lived. What I like about the printed page and books is they allow for contemplation, something more than scrolling quickly onto the next photo. I used to feel we were swimming in a sea of images. With the internet its become a tsunami of images flooding, surging over the world. One can easily drown or just surf the big wave.
Are you a fan of Mad Men? Is there a tv series (an entire new kind of narrative universe) that you find intriguing? I know you are a big fan of Hitchcock, but is there any one in the movie industry that intrigues or inspires you?
I did watch Mad Men. It was the writing and character development which kept me watching. What I enjoyed most was seeing how business and ad campaigns were developed during the period. The sets and clothing of the 1960s was an added pleasure. As for film, moves influence all of us. As for my specific inspirations and influences, that is a too deep a subject to go into. Without getting into too many specific films and directors, let me give an example of a cinematic influence. In Luis Bunuel’s That Obscure Object of Desire he changes the lead actress with a different actress midway through the film, without explanation. Working with two women in the same role has a unsettling surreal affect. When I got to motel fetish I borrowed this idea of change. I had a model wearing red sheer panties, half way though the sequence I changed out the red with pair of identical blue panties. This change is not as profound as Bunuel’s but it illustrates the influence of his film in my work. One more, in the Nicolas Roeg / Donald Cammell film Performance there’s a line were the Mick Jagger character says something like, “What makes the best performance? It’s the one that archives madness.” I took that to heart as the way to go in my work, go for the thing to which social convention says no, do not self censor, make the work dangerous.
There so many talented models today. When possible I prefer to work with one model over a long period of time, many sessions, 10 to 20. With the right understanding and rapport working with one person barriers break down.
You don’t become tired of shooting naked models after all these years, do you? Is there someone you never shot that you would love to?
I’m not tiring of photographing the nude. I am trying to approach the body in a different manner. Motel Fetish, Do Not Disturb and Dirty Rendezvous are a trilogy which is narrative in concept, constructed at its best in a cinematic way. But that story, that movie is over. While I can, and do, work with that approach, when it’s the right solution, I’m try to move away from it. My more recent work is more minimal, stripped down, less interior location and less narrative driven. There is no one I particularly long to photograph.
There so many talented models today. When possible I prefer to work with one model over a long period of time, many sessions, 10 to 20. With the right understanding and rapport working with one person barriers break down.
We know all about Richard Prince work and how much irritating it has been for the photography scene. I read a post of yours in which you where quite neutral commenting his work. But truly, do you love him or do you hate him?
I’m rather indifferent concerning Prince. I understand copyright to a degree and the notion of fair usage. I can’t get worked up over his appropriations. It’s what he has been doing since the late 70’s. I found him interesting in the 80’s and 90’s, but now I don’t find his work to be as interesting. He’s been miming the same concept for many years. His current appropriation of Instagram is old wine in a new bottle. That work maybe clever but not all that creative or insightful. Under fair usage any work can be used for parody and or social comment without copyright permission. When Weird Al Yankovic parodied Beat It into Eat It he didn’t pay Michael Jackson. Maybe Prince is the art world’s Weird Al? If anything Prince has become a parody of his former self (at $90,000 a pop).
In the future all my past work will be raw material to be cut-up, re-contextualized and reused.
What will you be doing in 2025? And what will photography look like then?
In 2025? I hope to be walking my dog in the park during the day and drinking a stiff cocktail in the evening. In terms of work? My photography is going in two directions. I currently work a lot in collage. In the future all my past work will be raw material to be cut-up, re-contextualized and reused. The other direction; I started out as a street photographer before moving into a studio space. I will be leaving the studio and retuning to the street. Whatever I will be producing I think my point of view established in previous works will continue to be present; the erotic, the surreal and the noir.
Chas Ray Krider | website
By Fluffer Magazine in Fluffer Magazine
116 pages, published 8/9/2015
Inside issue 006 ~ english text and photos!
FEAT. PHOTOGRAPHERS: Chas Ray Krider, Massimo Scognamiglio, Miss Sorry, Alessandro Caramagna, Claudio Giordano, Luca Mata, Fabio Pregnolato, Riccardo Sirica, Cary Fagan, Alex Aldegheri, Nicola D’Orta, Lorenzo Sala, Gianluca Festinese, Maria Palmieri.FEAT.…
[asa_collection book]chasraykrider[/asa_collection]